[JSM]

For reference, earlier this week on an EA 350kW DCFC, I got this result on my 2023 Solterra (AWD, CATL) with a warmer battery.

at 30% net state of charge:
Volts 361, Amps 195.1, kW 70.43, Battery 86-87.8F.

The warmer battery temperature helped a lot.

I hope that Toyota isn’t limiting the charge rate to 50 kW at around 56F, even on the 2024 CATL models. Yuk. This “winter” (California coast winter… maybe 55 for a high most days), I’ll try it again when the battery is cold (my 2023 CATL).


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Brings up the topic of battery preconditioning, which some EVs have it based off their navigation, like Tesla does as it approaches a supercharger station. I've read that the new GM EVs also have same with charging stations navigated to with Google Maps.

 

[Csp1mlp1]

Wow, why so slow? Were you at a high state of charge to start with?

Yes ever since the update i got it have yet to see anything above 35 kw been to Toyota they say everything is the way it is supposed to be. Any I go to DC fast charging stations.

 

[JSM]

For reference, earlier this week on an EA 350kW DCFC, I got this result on my 2023 Solterra (AWD, CATL) with a warmer battery.

at 30% net state of charge:
Volts 361, Amps 195.1, kW 70.43, Battery 86-87.8F.

The warmer battery temperature helped a lot.

I hope that Toyota isn’t limiting the charge rate to 50 kW at around 56F, even on the 2024 CATL models. Yuk. This “winter” (California coast winter… maybe 55 for a high most days), I’ll try it again when the battery is cold (my 2023 CATL).


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The bz4x manual is kinda vague on battery preconditioning. It says the traction battery heater will come on when the temperature is low (no temp specified) and stay on until charging cable is disconnected.

 

[JSM]

Latest charge data from today, a warmer day along with having driven nearly 40 miles to arrive at the charger so the battery had to be warm.

2024 bz4x XLE AWD;

Ambient temp 80 deg, 28% to 80% SOC, 32 minutes, max charging speed 94 kW.

Final numbers were...

 

[n6nl]

That looks like the warm CATL cell 2024 charge rate of about 120 - NetSoC.

The 2023 CATL is about 100 - NetSoC.

Those are a good rule of thumb to use when the charger works, is adequate for the job and the pack is warm enough.

I would love to have that better charge rate on my 2023, along with 3x10-80% charge sessions per rolling 24 hour period.

It would take my car from not really usable to road trips in the Western US to barely adequate, IMO.

 

[JSM]

That looks like the warm CATL cell 2024 charge rate of about 120 - NetSoC.

The 2023 CATL is about 100 - NetSoC.

Those are a good rule of thumb to use when the charger works, is adequate for the job and the pack is warm enough.

I would love to have that better charge rate on my 2023, along with 3x10-80% charge sessions per rolling 24 hour period.

It would take my car from not really usable to road trips in the Western US to barely adequate, IMO.

Has anyone reported what has actually happened if a 4th CCS1 charge is taken in that 24 hour period... Or a 5th charge for that matter?

 

[n6nl]

For the US 2023 CATL Solterra, I believe I heard that the charging rate drops to around the 11kW range once the rolling 24 hour limit is reached.

 

[Csp1mlp1]

2023 AWD Toyota BZ4X Limited

 

[JSM]

For the US 2023 CATL Solterra, I believe I heard that the charging rate drops to around the 11kW range once the rolling 24 hour limit is reached.

According to Toyota, if a 2024 bZ4X exceeds the recommended limit of three DC fast charging sessions (from low to 80% charge) per day, the battery may experience reduced charging efficiency and potentially longer charging times the following day, impacting the overall battery health over time; however, Level 1 and Level 2 AC charging remains unaffected by this limitation.

The reason I ask is there's certain words in Toyota's warnings that make it seem as if probable things might happen with the battery and charging but not definitely. There's RECOMMENDED, MAY, and POTENTIALLY. So let's assume for a minute, this is not a daily task, but you have one 700mile road trip or two a year. Would you actually incur the wrath of Toyota and slow charging or is this their get out of jail card should you have a problem down the road instead?

 

[JSM]

According to Toyota, if a 2024 bZ4X exceeds the recommended limit of three DC fast charging sessions (from low to 80% charge) per day, the battery may experience reduced charging efficiency and potentially longer charging times the following day, impacting the overall battery health over time; however, Level 1 and Level 2 AC charging remains unaffected by this limitation.

The reason I ask is there's certain words in Toyota's warnings that make it seem as if probable things might happen with the battery and charging but not definitely. There's RECOMMENDED, MAY, and POTENTIALLY. So let's assume for a minute, this is not a daily task, but you have one 700mile road trip or two a year. Would you actually incur the wrath of Toyota and slow charging or is this their get out of jail card should you have a problem down the road instead?

The following is from a Reddit post on the same topic;

"Don’t worry about it. It’s actually something like 3.8 charges from 10-80% within 24 hours, or roughly 266% of charging. Road trips usually look like charging from 10 or 15% to 60% over and over, and so in the grand scheme of things you end up charging often but not reaching the 266% within a day. Regardless, nothing bad happens and the car isn’t going to brick or stop charging. The charging speeds MIGHT go lower though IF you’ve accumulated enough ‘points’ while driving. Whatever bad driving and charging habits are in the context of battery longevity will cause you to accumulate these points, and the more points you have the slower charging could end up being."

 

[LMichaels]

It's almost worded like they can't stop you from doing it, but if something goes wrong "they know" if/when it does

 

[Csp1mlp1]

I charge at a DC fast charging station maybe once a month and the charging speed is about the same whenever I go there i don't do it all the time

 

[mortisvan]

Charge from 7% to 80 %. Peaked at 130 kW. The damn EVgo charging station in my area is always full. The next station is 8 miles away.

 

[jake14mw]

The following is from a Reddit post on the same topic;

"Don’t worry about it. It’s actually something like 3.8 charges from 10-80% within 24 hours, or roughly 266% of charging. Road trips usually look like charging from 10 or 15% to 60% over and over, and so in the grand scheme of things you end up charging often but not reaching the 266% within a day. Regardless, nothing bad happens and the car isn’t going to brick or stop charging. The charging speeds MIGHT go lower though IF you’ve accumulated enough ‘points’ while driving. Whatever bad driving and charging habits are in the context of battery longevity will cause you to accumulate these points, and the more points you have the slower charging could end up being."

I know at least @kat and one other poster here hit the limit on a road trip. That limit is under 600 miles, easily doable in a day. In winter, it's probably under 500 miles. I think the wording that you are referencing is one of the problems people have with the way Toyota has addressed the problem.

 

[janedoe997]

I am a Chinese user, and we are disappointed with Toyota's Japan headquarters, because this model is a global model, and the relevant software system can only be authorized by Toyota headquarters. We are trying a more radical solution, contacting CATL engineers to directly engineer the power battery ECU, and two vehicles have solved the problem of slow charging, and are testing stability (0~100% at room temperature for one hour, about 1.5 hours at low temperature).

Can you please explain. How have you tested two vehicles?

 

[Crookster]

I have a 2023 AWD Bzx4. The fastest charge I’ve ever gotten was 74kW, but on average only get 37kW. I brought it into the dealership today, and they showed me a setting on the dash that you can get to for Charging speed. Mine was already set to Max. It’s pretty disappointing how slowly this thing charges. Makes it ineffective to drive outside of town. Thank you for charging with Electrify America. For assistance, call us 24 hours a day at 1-833-632-2778. 05/05/2024 4:17:06 PM Safeway 0273 - Anderson, CA 2601 Balls Ferry Road Anderson, California 96007 Charger: #100011-03 Session ID: 31237457 Total paid: $26.43 Plan: N/A Charging pricing: $0.56/kWh (pre-tax) Idling: $0.00 ($0.40/min) Sales tax (0.0%): $0.00 Discount: $0.00 End state of charge: 100% Total energy delivered: 47.2160 kWh Energy Billed: 47.0000 kWh Power Type: DC Max charging speed: 70.00 kW Charge Start Time: 2:30:59 PM Charge Stop Time: 4:13:11 PM Charging time: 01:42:11 Grace period: 00:03 min Idle Start Time: 00:00:00 Idle Stop Time: 00:00:00 Paid idle time: 00:00 Thank you for charging with Electrify America. For assistance, call us 24 hours a day at 1-833-632-2778. 10/25/2024 12:51:28 PM Target T0612 - Springfield, OR 2750 Gateway St Springfield, Oregon 97477 Charger: #100059-03 Session ID: 41751809 Total paid: $6.04 Plan: N/A Charging pricing: $0.48/kWh (pre-tax) Idling: $0.00 ($0.40/min) Sales tax (0.0%): $0.00 Discount: $0.00 End state of charge: 46% Total energy delivered: 12.6080 kWh Energy Billed: 12.6000 kWh Power Type: DC Max charging speed: 35.00 kW Charge Start Time: 12:26:32 PM Charge Stop Time: 12:51:23 PM Charging time: 00:24:50 Grace period: 00:00 min Idle Start Time: 00:00:00 Idle Stop Time: 00:00:00 Paid idle time: 00:00 Thank you for charging with Electrify America. For assistance, call us 24 hours a day at 1-833-632-2778. 10/25/2024 1:51:59 PM Target T0612 - Springfield, OR 2750 Gateway St Springfield, Oregon 97477 Charger: #100059-04 Session ID: 41753713 Total paid: $11.61 Plan: N/A Charging pricing: $0.48/kWh (pre-tax) Idling: $0.00 ($0.40/min) Sales tax (0.0%): $0.00 Discount: $0.00 End state of charge: 84% Total energy delivered: 24.2880 kWh Energy Billed: 24.2000 kWh Power Type: DC Max charging speed: 37.00 kW Charge Start Time: 12:55:02 PM Charge Stop Time: 1:51:49 PM Charging time: 00:56:47 Grace period: 00:00 min Idle Start Time: 00:00:00 Idle Stop Time: 00:00:00 Paid idle time: 00:00

 

[n6nl]

The 2023 AWD in North America has a CATL battery pack. When warm, your charging rate will be approximately 100 minus the indicated State of Charge.

I.e., 100 - 26 is 74.

If your state of charge is 26%, the charge rate will be about 74 kW.

As state of charge increases, for every 1%, the charge rate goes down by about 1 kW.

Above 80%, the rate drops much further.

And this is only if the battery is warm. If cool or cold, you’ll get a much slower charging rate.

Yeah, this sucks.

 

[Crookster]

The 2023 AWD in North America has a CATL battery pack. When warm, your charging rate will be approximately 100 minus the indicated State of Charge.

I.e., 100 - 26 is 74.

If your state of charge is 26%, the charge rate will be about 74 kW.

As state of charge increases, for every 1%, the charge rate goes down by about 1 kW.

Above 80%, the rate drops much further.

And this is only if the battery is warm. If cool or cold, you’ll get a much slower charging rate.

Yeah, this sucks.

Definitely sucks! I think I might have to cancel my lease.

 

[JSM]

The 2023 AWD in North America has a CATL battery pack. When warm, your charging rate will be approximately 100 minus the indicated State of Charge.

I.e., 100 - 26 is 74.

If your state of charge is 26%, the charge rate will be about 74 kW.

As state of charge increases, for every 1%, the charge rate goes down by about 1 kW.

Above 80%, the rate drops much further.

And this is only if the battery is warm. If cool or cold, you’ll get a much slower charging rate.

Yeah, this sucks.

With my 2024 xle awd version, I briefly saw 104 once, several times in the mid 90s, all when initiating at under 20% SOC, and all when warmer temps. However, i also saw below expected charge rate on one road trip with 95 degree day, after driving several hours. High temp doesn't necessarily help either.

 

[LMichaels]

Definitely sucks! I think I might have to cancel my lease.

If you've taken delivery there is no such thing as "canceling" a lease. You're on the hook for the residual and ongoing cost of the lease