[Vern748]

I have a 2023 Bz4x XL awd. First off I have to say I love love the vehicle. The battery snafu is not a big deal for me and it will be handled in the courts by others. That said, here are some of my observations.

The Bz4x feel (not physical feel) like a techno wiz bang project. After many years in high tech, hardware and software, I have seen this before. You know those magazines you read through while on a plane flights ? ( since the pandemic, these magazines have gone away) They were filled with half though out wiz bang stuff that didn't really work, but were great concepts. We called that CEO ware. Your CEO read this stuff on their flight from Dubi to X. He/She ( equal opportunity dumb shits) give this article/magazine to the head of technology and wants to have something in the next X months to "capture" the market.

The VP of whatever doesn't want to loose their job so its "yes sir yes sir" three bage full. This goes down the chain and somewhere down the process something is produced. At no point did someone say it was stupid. Or why was this done this way.

Case in point, the regenerative breaking. Who thought of that ? There are dozens of other vehicles that implement this correctly. Who at Toyota said, I think our method is better. I think someone said let's do it this way and maybe never drove a car that had it implemented correctly.

Case in point. The center console. Why is it so high? Why does my straw gets caught on my sleeve when I'm driving ? I'm the size of a typical Japaneese person ( factual, not being stereotypical or disparaging). Am I the only person to use straws in my drink cups ?

Case in point. The " guess o meter" and true range of the batteries. "Well, lets just call it usable range" , less massive buffer, less reserve, less the extra range WE gave you that extra after its at "0" ( we did not want you to stress too much looking for a charger when your nearing " 0". No one else does this. Wtf. So what is the range ?

Case in point. Wheels. Toyota has never produced ( in modern memory) a vehicle that used lug bolts and not their typical lug stud and nut system. Let's try something new, a nut is a nut is a nut, no problem....until it launches itself from the wheel assembly. This causes a 10 month recall and hold...killing any excitement in the market for a Toyota full EV. As I'm sitting here at Five Guys Burgers, I see some cool OEM wheels on a rav4 and a highlander. Similar size and weight as a Bz ( you engineer types that want to comment on this observation, please hold it, I'm not interested in weight dynamics etc). How difficult could this have been to get right ?

So...as it played out. The engineers built it, and the testers tested it. The testers might have said, wtf, but were either fired or wanted to keep their jobs. The engineers presented it to the VP of whatever and the VP gave it his/her blessing ( want to be equal opportunity to be dumb shits). The VP gave it to the President with their blessing and all was good. Meanwhile many many people in the know, knew the King had no clothes. If anyone has spent 1000 mile in this vehicle they would know these faults. If anyone had driven this vehicle in the cold, they would know. If anyone turned on the heater they would have seen range cut by a third.

In final, I love my Bz, faults and all, but it doesn't take a genius to see its blemishes and how it happened. The hope is they can fix some of it over the air. I guess I'll have to live with catching my sleeve on my straws.

 

[Zabrodov]

Case in point. Wheels. Toyota has never produced ( in modern memory) a vehicle that used lug bolts and not their typical lug stud and nut system. Let's try something new, a nut is a nut is a nut, no problem....until it launches itself from the wheel assembly. This causes a 10 month recall and hold...killing any excitement in the market for a Toyota full EV. As I'm sitting here at Five Guys Burgers, I see some cool OEM wheels on a rav4 and a highlander. Similar size and weight as a Bz ( you engineer types that want to comment on this observation, please hold it, I'm not interested in weight dynamics etc). How difficult could this have been to get right ?

Actually, Toyota has been producing lug bolts since 2020 (at least) just for Lexus.
Interestingly, bz4x uses the same bolts (same part number) as does 2020 Lexus IS 350 etc.

I described it in this post: Anyone Looking for After Market Wheels? | Toyota BZ Forum (bzforums.com)

 

[Vern748]

Great, so why did it go Sooo wrong !

 

[n6nl]

Electric motor torque!

 

[Vern748]

My point exactly. The pin heads on this forum can figure this out why couldn't Toyota.

 

[n6nl]

Well, in fact, the machining of the wheels for the prototype was done correctly, for production, done incorrectly. Torque applied to a nut or bolt is only a poor indication of clamping force, which is what’s desired.

 

[B.Wilkins_85]

To be completely honest, I’m not particularly bothered by any of the BZ4X’s little quirks; this car is so far above and beyond the capabilities of my old jalopy which it replaced that these things seem insignificant to me. Neither will I have any buyer’s remorse if and when Toyota improves upon these quirks, or adds newer and better capabilities (assuming the platform survives another iteration, which is admittedly uncertain), because I was aware of what capabilities the car supposedly did and did not have when I ordered it.

If I could have obtained a comparable EV or PHEV in my price range but with fewer technical compromises, I would have; the Toyota was admittedly not my first choice. But with the astonishing (and stupid) $8-10k+ mark-ups on Ioniq's EV6's, Mach-E's, RAV-4 Prime's, and even Santa Fe's—as well as the abominable wait-lists—none of those were even remotely viable options. My budget was ~$30-$35k, and this was one of the only vehicles in its class that could be obtained—after rebates, and in due time—at anywhere near that price.

The only thing I am really concerned with is that my BZ4X is able to do (or at least largely approximate) what it was advertised to do; namely, drive a certain range, and recharge at a certain speed. I bought the vehicle knowing full well that these factors in particular were compromises compared to its competitors; on paper, its 100 kW charging speed and 228 mile range is anything but class-leading. But for my purposes, I decided that these figures were actually quite sufficient.

Unfortunately, thus far, my BZ4X—as much as I like how it drives—is decidedly incapable of doing what it was advertised to do in the realm of range and charging speeds, and if Toyota does not address these issues with a fix that applies to these vehicles—not simply future vehicles—then, for my purposes, I have a very pricey paperweight.

 

[Nabaz]

I love the car but the range and charging has been so disappointing. Really not sure what to do, just to return it to then same dealer, I would lose 7-9k loss. I am hoping a software update is coming and it helps.

 

[B.Wilkins_85]

I love the car but the range and charging has been so disappointing. Really not sure what to do, just to return it to then same dealer, I would lose 7-9k loss. I am hoping a software update is coming and it helps.

I really think we all need to stick together on this—since this is such a low-volume vehicle and there aren't that many of us—and hold Toyota's feet to the fire in regards to these issues, as they are simply unacceptable.

We did not knowingly purchase experimental prototype vehicles. I am sure we can all appreciate first year models will have some kinks to be worked out (i.e., such as the wheel bolts); but from a manufacturer with the world-class reputation of Toyota, we expect them to be addressed—ostensibly, it's the reason that many of us opted for the Toyota BZ4X in the first place. Yet so far, I know of no communication between Toyota Corporate in North America and BZ4X owners indicating these are known issues which they intend to address. Zero communication.

And I concur with you that trading the vehicle back in at this point would likely incur a very large financial loss to us, approaching 5 figures. But this should not be a cost that we, the consumer, should have to bear, because our dissatisfaction in these regards isn't simply buyer's remorse—it's based on very legitimate concerns regarding either Toyota's false advertising insofar as the vehicle's supposed capabilities, or some sort of production error/technical flaw.

Imagine the vehicle's resale value in a year or two if these issues remain unaddressed, or if Toyota does address these issues but only on newly manufactured vehicles—perhaps releasing updated 2024 models that actually do what our vehicles were sold to us as supposedly being able to do from the get-go.

And could you retain your conscience and knowingly sell this car to a private party without telling them the truth—that it hardly charges at all when its even just a little bit nippy outside, or that it barely gets three digits of real world range in the winter time? I know I couldn't.

We need to make sure we're not hung out to dry here; we need to collectively press Toyota for clear communication on what specific fixes they intend to implement, and what their timeline is. If we just wait around anxiously to see if Toyota does or does not release a relevant software update I think we're going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[ElectricAvenue]

I love the car but the range and charging has been so disappointing. Really not sure what to do, just to return it to then same dealer, I would lose 7-9k loss. I am hoping a software update is coming and it helps.

Welcome to the forum @Nabaz. What kind of range and charging numbers have you been getting with your bZ4X?

 

[Nabaz]

Welcome to the forum @Nabaz. What kind of range and charging numbers have you been getting with your bZ4X?

I am using fast chargers 200kw and up to 50% I get high 30s to low 40s and it reduces to 20s until 70% and 12-15 above that. I usually stop around 80-85 % because it just slows down way too much. As for Range, 80-20 I get about 100 if use heat, about 140 without heat.