Add Yours: 2023 Toyota bZ4X Owner's Registry

Software Wish List; carbon monoxide (??)

1441 Views 15 Replies 6 Participants Last post by n6nl, 1 mo ago

ab4ej1

Discussion Starter · 2 mo ago

After having driven a Tesla Model S (which I still have) for 7 years, I have a couple of things I would wish for in the bZ4x software:

The Regeneration Boost setting and Brake Hold setting should not turn off on their own. It looks like Brake Hold goes off whenever you put the vehicle in park, and Regeneration Boost goes off when you power off the car. These should be persistent (or perhaps a settings option to make them persistent); I use them all the time.
It should be possible to turn off the creep feature (this is a hold-over from automatic transmissions that causes the vehicle to creep forward when in drive and your foot is not on brake or accelerator. Once again, this could be an option in Settings (like on the Tesla!!)

Another oddity - the Owner's Manual in several places cautions about carbon monoxide build-up (car in deep snow, etc). - is that really a thing (how is it possible??) - or just because sections of the manual were copied & pasted from a gasoline model?

Reactions: 2

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osiris11

· #2 · 2 mo ago

ab4ej1 said:
After having driven a Tesla Model S (which I still have) for 7 years, I have a couple of things I would wish for in the bZ4x software:

The Regeneration Boost setting and Brake Hold setting should not turn off on their own. It looks like Brake Hold goes off whenever you put the vehicle in park, and Regeneration Boost goes off when you power off the car. These should be persistent (or perhaps a settings option to make them persistent); I use them all the time.

It should be possible to turn off the creep feature (this is a hold-over from automatic transmissions that causes the vehicle to creep forward when in drive and your foot is not on brake or accelerator. Once again, this could be an option in Settings (like on the Tesla!!)

Another oddity - the Owner's Manual in several places cautions about carbon monoxide build-up (car in deep snow, etc). - is that really a thing (how is it possible??) - or just because sections of the manual were copied & pasted from a gasoline model?

Carbon monoxide? I heard there are several places where the manual was not specific written for EVs. Guess this is another find. Thanks for sharing.

n6nl

· #3 · 2 mo ago

Lawyers required it, I’ll bet.

md.

· #4 · 2 mo ago

ab4ej1 said:
After having driven a Tesla Model S (which I still have) for 7 years, I have a couple of things I would wish for in the bZ4x software:

The Regeneration Boost setting and Brake Hold setting should not turn off on their own. It looks like Brake Hold goes off whenever you put the vehicle in park, and Regeneration Boost goes off when you power off the car. These should be persistent (or perhaps a settings option to make them persistent); I use them all the time.

It should be possible to turn off the creep feature (this is a hold-over from automatic transmissions that causes the vehicle to creep forward when in drive and your foot is not on brake or accelerator. Once again, this could be an option in Settings (like on the Tesla!!)

Another oddity - the Owner's Manual in several places cautions about carbon monoxide build-up (car in deep snow, etc). - is that really a thing (how is it possible??) - or just because sections of the manual were copied & pasted from a gasoline model?

I'm sure these were very intentional decisions by Toyota to allow their non-EV drivers to gradually adjust to EVs. Not an oversight.

enakffej

· #5 · 2 mo ago

ab4ej1 said:
After having driven a Tesla Model S (which I still have) for 7 years, I have a couple of things I would wish for in the bZ4x software:

The Regeneration Boost setting and Brake Hold setting should not turn off on their own. It looks like Brake Hold goes off whenever you put the vehicle in park, and Regeneration Boost goes off when you power off the car. These should be persistent (or perhaps a settings option to make them persistent); I use them all the time.

It should be possible to turn off the creep feature (this is a hold-over from automatic transmissions that causes the vehicle to creep forward when in drive and your foot is not on brake or accelerator. Once again, this could be an option in Settings (like on the Tesla!!)

I like those ideas a lot. To those I would add a request for these features:
(a) toggle off/on the interior reverse beep and the unfastened seat belt beep; and
(b) to have the parking camera view kick on when the vehicles senses we are parking (there's a setting that turns it on every time you stop, but it's unworkable because it comes on at every stop at an intersection; but it ought to be able to sense when I am pulling into my garage to park, like other vehicles I have do).

@ab4ej1 - I'd be interested to hear any other thoughts you have about how the bz4x compares to the Tesla S. I've never driven the latter, but the handling, clearance, feel, features of the bZ made me take the plunge despite lesser range/battery tech than Tesla.

Reactions: 1

osiris11

· #6 · 2 mo ago

enakffej said:
I like those ideas a lot. To those I would add a request for these features:
(a) toggle off/on the interior reverse beep and the unfastened seat belt beep; and
(b) to have the parking camera view kick on when the vehicles senses we are parking (there's a setting that turns it on every time you stop, but it's unworkable because it comes on at every stop at an intersection; but it ought to be able to sense when I am pulling into my garage to park, like other vehicles I have do).

@ab4ej1 - I'd be interested to hear any other thoughts you have about how the bz4x compares to the Tesla S. I've never driven the latter, but the handling, clearance, feel, features of the bZ made me take the plunge despite lesser range/battery tech than Tesla.

I would add:

The ambient outside temperature should not be a factor in stopping the internal heat pump from conditioning the battery on a very cold day. I just heard that the software factors in this sensor when determining how fast the car can accept a charge. Why is that even a thing? Just heat the batteries when they are cold to allow for faster charging.

Reactions: 1

enakffej

· #7 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

osiris11 said:
I would add:

The ambient outside temperature should not be a factor in stopping the internal heat pump from conditioning the battery on a very cold day. I just heard that the software factors in this sensor when determining how fast the car can accept a charge. Why is that even a thing? Just heat the batteries when they are cold to allow for faster charging.

That would be great, if it actually has a heat pump to condition the battery. What info do you have about this feature actually existing? I had hoped that Toyota did this on the BZ4x, like Kia is doing for its vehicles, and when I shopped and saw all of the equipment under the hood I thought maybe it did (sales rep had no idea or info). But after buying it I have not seen any specs to confirm it exists and I figured that with the poor cold temp performance of the battery (and lack of regen boost at temps below 50 degrees F), the system/feature does not actually exist. Would be amazing if it does and Toyota actually makes it work.

osiris11

· #8 · 2 mo ago

www.motorbiscuit.com

Does the 2023 Toyota bZ4X Have a Heat Pump?

Electric vehicles experience plenty of issues in extreme temperatures. Does the 2023 Toyota bZ4X have a heat pump?

www.motorbiscuit.com

Reactions: 1

enakffej

· #9 · 2 mo ago

osiris11 said:
Does the 2023 Toyota bZ4X Have a Heat Pump?

Electric vehicles experience plenty of issues in extreme temperatures. Does the 2023 Toyota bZ4X have a heat pump?

www.motorbiscuit.com

Thanks, but this is hard for someone who’s been driving on in winter to believe: “Toyota bZ4X batteries are temperature controlled, so extreme temperatures won’t hinder their efficiency.” But I’m also holding out hope that software updates change my mind if it really has the hardware to do this

Reactions: 1

ab4ej1

Discussion Starter · #10 · 2 mo ago

All the online documentation I have seen says that the bz4x does have a heat pump; see

motorbiscuit.com/toyota-bz4x-heat-pump/

osiris11 said:
Does the 2023 Toyota bZ4X Have a Heat Pump?

Electric vehicles experience plenty of issues in extreme temperatures. Does the 2023 Toyota bZ4X have a heat pump?

www.motorbiscuit.com

Reactions: 1

ab4ej1

Discussion Starter · #11 · 2 mo ago

enakffej said:
I like those ideas a lot. To those I would add a request for these features:
(a) toggle off/on the interior reverse beep and the unfastened seat belt beep; and
(b) to have the parking camera view kick on when the vehicles senses we are parking (there's a setting that turns it on every time you stop, but it's unworkable because it comes on at every stop at an intersection; but it ought to be able to sense when I am pulling into my garage to park, like other vehicles I have do).

@ab4ej1 - I'd be interested to hear any other thoughts you have about how the bz4x compares to the Tesla S. I've never driven the latter, but the handling, clearance, feel, features of the bZ made me take the plunge despite lesser range/battery tech than Tesla.

I've put about 800 miles on bz4x so far (had it a week and a half). Some comparisons to Tesla Model S:

The bz4x sits higher and has higher ground clearance than Tesla (Tesla ride height can be controlled via air suspension); also the bz4x ride is stiffer. These things make sense given the bz4x's heritage (jointly designed with Subaru, where off-roading is a priority). Driving feel is noticeably better on Tesla (but it is a sedan, not SUV, so this is normal).
The driver's view of the instrument panel is much better on the Tesla: the steering wheel blocks a portion of the IP on the bz4x. The bz4x concept had a steering yoke instead of a steering wheel, eliminating this problem... but then Tesla found out (with the Model S), that most people don't like the steering yoke (it works great for airliners); so Tesla and Toyota both removed it.
The software on the bz4x is a bit immature and glitchy. Yesterday, I had set up a route which I was using to navigate to a place in Birmingham (AL), and also using distance-sensing cruise, and when I tried to also start Apple music, the whole car hesitated for about 200 milliseconds (drive power stopped and restarted), and then it dropped the route in progress and tried route me back to home. This is a classic case of a software race. (BTW, I am a software engineer with 29 years in auto industry, GM and Mercedes-Benz).
Panic stop works comparably between the vehicles (had to use this yesterday, when a cat ran out in front of car).
The beeping in the cabin when backing up is annoying and unnecessary; should be able to disable this. Beeping for an unfastened seat belt should be left in place. (Many if not most fatalities in AL involve someone not using a seat belt).
Other feature differences:
On Tesla, you can use the key fob to pull the car in and out of a zero-clearance parking spot; no such feature on bz4x. (I never use this, anyway).
Opening & closing of the rear hatch is better on bz4x than on Tesla (use of foot to control it; also on Tesla, if you open driver door while hatch is closing, the hatch usually will pop back open again - perhaps due to a safety sensor miscalibrated).
When you walk away from the Tesla with key fob in your pocket, doors lock automatically; on bz4x you have to manually lock using fob button or sensor on driver door handle.
The (leather) seats on the Tesla are more comfortable (but I would guess they cost at least twice as much as the seats on the bz4x).
There are a lot of quality differences between the vehicles - the Tesla uses much nicer, more expensive parts than the Toyota on almost everything; the Tesla (mine is AWD) has about double the acceleration as the bz4x - but then, all of this is a "you get what you pay for" kind of thing - I paid almost exactly double for the Tesla as what I paid for the bz4x, so this is normal, expected, and totally OK; the bz4x is not supposed to be a luxury car, and the Tesla Model S is. The Lexus version of the bz4x should be closer to the Tesla in this respect.

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Reactions: 2

enakffej

· #12 · 2 mo ago

ab4ej1 said:
All the online documentation I have seen says that the bz4x does have a heat pump; see

motorbiscuit.com/toyota-bz4x-heat-pump/

ab4ej1 said:
All the online documentation I have seen says that the bz4x does have a heat pump; see

motorbiscuit.com/toyota-bz4x-heat-pump/

That motorbiscuit link is old and makes me think chatgpt more than "well-researched article by a technically proficient writer." Every definitive article on the inter webs I've read refers only to a heat pump for conditioning the cabin.

Here is a detailed promo piece by the company that says it supplies some sensors for the bZ4x:

www.denso-am.eu

DENSO products electrify Toyota and Subaru’s new all-electric bZ4X and SOLTERRA

DENSO provides key electrification components to Toyota and Subaru for their all-new bZ4X and SOLTERRA all-electric vehicles, helping them to optimise battery usage to go further, charge faster and, most importantly, perform better.

www.denso-am.eu

Despite the level of detail in it, I don't see where it definitively says that there is a heat pump to heat the battery.

This early review based on the early specs released by Toyota specifies that the battery is liquid cooled, but not how it's cooled or whether it can also be heated:

insideevs.com

Everything We Know About The Toyota bZ4X Specs

Toyota has released today a lot of details about the all-new Toyota bZ4X model, which will be launched worldwide in the middle of 2022. Let's check the specs.

insideevs.com

So, I remain skeptical based on the battery's poor performance in winter and the lack of any definitive specs or promotion of Toyota installing a heat pump to condition the battery for winter use or driving in cold temps. I hope I'm wrong.

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enakffej

· #13 · 2 mo ago

ab4ej1 said:
I've put about 800 miles on bz4x so far (had it a week and a half). Some comparisons to Tesla Model S:

Thank you - that's more useful to me than the bulk of the professional, published reviews and helps me feel better about my purchase.

Reactions: 1

osiris11

· #14 · 2 mo ago

ab4ej1 said:
I've put about 800 miles on bz4x so far (had it a week and a half). Some comparisons to Tesla Model S:

The bz4x sits higher and has higher ground clearance than Tesla (Tesla ride height can be controlled via air suspension); also the bz4x ride is stiffer. These things make sense given the bz4x's heritage (jointly designed with Subaru, where off-roading is a priority). Driving feel is noticeably better on Tesla (but it is a sedan, not SUV, so this is normal).

The driver's view of the instrument panel is much better on the Tesla: the steering wheel blocks a portion of the IP on the bz4x. The bz4x concept had a steering yoke instead of a steering wheel, eliminating this problem... but then Tesla found out (with the Model S), that most people don't like the steering yoke (it works great for airliners); so Tesla and Toyota both removed it.

The software on the bz4x is a bit immature and glitchy. Yesterday, I had set up a route which I was using to navigate to a place in Birmingham (AL), and also using distance-sensing cruise, and when I tried to also start Apple music, the whole car hesitated for about 200 milliseconds (drive power stopped and restarted), and then it dropped the route in progress and tried route me back to home. This is a classic case of a software race. (BTW, I am a software engineer with 29 years in auto industry, GM and Mercedes-Benz).

Panic stop works comparably between the vehicles (had to use this yesterday, when a cat ran out in front of car).

The beeping in the cabin when backing up is annoying and unnecessary; should be able to disable this. Beeping for an unfastened seat belt should be left in place. (Many if not most fatalities in AL involve someone not using a seat belt).

Other feature differences:

On Tesla, you can use the key fob to pull the car in and out of a zero-clearance parking spot; no such feature on bz4x. (I never use this, anyway).

Opening & closing of the rear hatch is better on bz4x than on Tesla (use of foot to control it; also on Tesla, if you open driver door while hatch is closing, the hatch usually will pop back open again - perhaps due to a safety sensor miscalibrated).

When you walk away from the Tesla with key fob in your pocket, doors lock automatically; on bz4x you have to manually lock using fob button or sensor on driver door handle.

The (leather) seats on the Tesla are more comfortable (but I would guess they cost at least twice as much as the seats on the bz4x).

There are a lot of quality differences between the vehicles - the Tesla uses much nicer, more expensive parts than the Toyota on almost everything; the Tesla (mine is AWD) has about double the acceleration as the bz4x - but then, all of this is a "you get what you pay for" kind of thing - I paid almost exactly double for the Tesla as what I paid for the bz4x, so this is normal, expected, and totally OK; the bz4x is not supposed to be a luxury car, and the Tesla Model S is. The Lexus version of the bz4x should be closer to the Tesla in this respect.

Thank you for the great comparison between the Tesla and bz4x.

rubjan3

· #15 · 1 mo ago

ab4ej1 said:
I've put about 800 miles on bz4x so far (had it a week and a half). Some comparisons to Tesla Model S:

The bz4x sits higher and has higher ground clearance than Tesla (Tesla ride height can be controlled via air suspension); also the bz4x ride is stiffer. These things make sense given the bz4x's heritage (jointly designed with Subaru, where off-roading is a priority). Driving feel is noticeably better on Tesla (but it is a sedan, not SUV, so this is normal).

The driver's view of the instrument panel is much better on the Tesla: the steering wheel blocks a portion of the IP on the bz4x. The bz4x concept had a steering yoke instead of a steering wheel, eliminating this problem... but then Tesla found out (with the Model S), that most people don't like the steering yoke (it works great for airliners); so Tesla and Toyota both removed it.

The software on the bz4x is a bit immature and glitchy. Yesterday, I had set up a route which I was using to navigate to a place in Birmingham (AL), and also using distance-sensing cruise, and when I tried to also start Apple music, the whole car hesitated for about 200 milliseconds (drive power stopped and restarted), and then it dropped the route in progress and tried route me back to home. This is a classic case of a software race. (BTW, I am a software engineer with 29 years in auto industry, GM and Mercedes-Benz).

Panic stop works comparably between the vehicles (had to use this yesterday, when a cat ran out in front of car).

The beeping in the cabin when backing up is annoying and unnecessary; should be able to disable this. Beeping for an unfastened seat belt should be left in place. (Many if not most fatalities in AL involve someone not using a seat belt).

Other feature differences:

On Tesla, you can use the key fob to pull the car in and out of a zero-clearance parking spot; no such feature on bz4x. (I never use this, anyway).

Opening & closing of the rear hatch is better on bz4x than on Tesla (use of foot to control it; also on Tesla, if you open driver door while hatch is closing, the hatch usually will pop back open again - perhaps due to a safety sensor miscalibrated).

When you walk away from the Tesla with key fob in your pocket, doors lock automatically; on bz4x you have to manually lock using fob button or sensor on driver door handle.

The (leather) seats on the Tesla are more comfortable (but I would guess they cost at least twice as much as the seats on the bz4x).

There are a lot of quality differences between the vehicles - the Tesla uses much nicer, more expensive parts than the Toyota on almost everything; the Tesla (mine is AWD) has about double the acceleration as the bz4x - but then, all of this is a "you get what you pay for" kind of thing - I paid almost exactly double for the Tesla as what I paid for the bz4x, so this is normal, expected, and totally OK; the bz4x is not supposed to be a luxury car, and the Tesla Model S is. The Lexus version of the bz4x should be closer to the Tesla in this respect.

nice comparison, no doubt tesla is smarter and faster and toyota is meant to be as an everyday suv that you can put a lot of miles on and not go to the shop (unlike tesla). It feels like a better and bigger version of venza that just happens to be electric

Reactions: 1

n6nl

· #16 · 1 mo ago

The comparison would be better against the Model Y, especially since the fit and finish of the much more expensive Model S ought to be better, given the huge price difference. For the Model Y, the flaws definitely show.

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