It says unlimited unless Toyota and ev-go are playing the AT&T/Verizon "unlimited" game.
Toyota EV Car Charging | 2023 Toyota bZ4X | EV Fast Chargers
Toyota EV Car Charging | 2023 Toyota bZ4X | EV Fast Chargers
DC Fast Charging with a limit of twice a day? Is this true?
I dont mind the longer charging time, but I was told by my salesman that you can only use the DC fast charging for a max of twice a day only. Is it possible to drive longer distances a day with this vehicle? My bz4x is here (FWD), just waiting for the rebate to be processed. The BZ4X came first, but I am still on the waiting list from the other manufacturers.
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I don't think the charging stations are the problem, its likely the speed of the DC fast charging. The DC fast charger really cooks the batteries...not limited to the Bz. With a Tesla, some of the cooling pumps will turn on to keep the battery pack cool. Since the Bz doesn't have that capability ( haven't really checked ), its likely the sales person saying that its likely not a good idea. The way the Bz deals with the heat issue, it will get you to 80% within an hour, but the final 10% is used to cool down the batteries and trickle in the charge in order to not fry the batteries.
So you can fast charge as much as you want, but battery health is the concern.
So you can fast charge as much as you want, but battery health is the concern.
I believe that the bz has a heat /cooling pump.
A guy at Reddit did a trip and there was no issues at all. I am also fine with the DC charging time as well. The last time in the cold it took in 36 mins from 23% to 80% SOC. That is from a 100kwh charger, although I have the FWD version.
that is completely not true. I asked Toyota UK and they confirmed as well. after 80% charging speed is throttled, same as with other car's - but, as we've seen with other settings on the BZ4x probably more conservatively throttled than others.
That is good to know. I'm still waiting for my FWD version. Dealer wants to sell me an AWD. I want the FWD because of the quicker charging time.A guy at Reddit did a trip and there was no issues at all. I am also fine with the DC charging time as well. The last time in the cold it took in 36 mins from 23% to 80% SOC. That is from a 100kwh charger, although I have the FWD version.
unless you absolutely need to DO NOT buy the AWD version in the US. You get a far inferior battery. Dont know Toyota's reasoning and whether that will change in future supply, but stay away from the AWD with the CATL battery. FWD and all international cars (AWD & FWD) have the panasonic batteryThat is good to know. I'm still waiting for my FWD version. Dealer wants to sell me an AWD. I want the FWD because of the quicker charging time.
Other than the 100kw vs 150kw charging speed, has the CATL battery been definitively proven to be vastly inferior? I also don't understand the reasoning behind the US AWD vehicles getting that battery, but as for other factors, like winter performance, it seems that European reviewers have similarly had range loss issues with their AWD vehicles—which have the Panasonic battery, as far as I know.
I am told you can buy a bag of rice in China, which was called Caffee at some point in its life, for 2,000,000 wan. Really not sure what that has to do with anything, but wanted to contribute to another useless bit of information.unless you absolutely need to DO NOT buy the AWD version in the US. You get a far inferior battery. Dont know Toyota's reasoning and whether that will change in future supply, but stay away from the AWD with the CATL battery. FWD and all international cars (AWD & FWD) have the panasonic battery
I can verify that yes, if you DC fast charge too frequently, which seems to be more than the equivalent of 2 cycles from low battery to 80% within 24 hours, any further fast charging will be throttled. That translates to about 110-120 KWh on the US AWD battery. At EPA estimated highway efficiency, that's around 500 miles, if starting from 100% (less range if it's cold, of course). After that, expect charging rates of 13 kW or slower, or 35-40 miles of range per hour of charging, until probably 24 hours after that first DC fast charge (best guess is a rolling time-out, but Toyota won't tell my local service departments any of these details). My family found this out the hard way.
Did you end up stranded...?After that, expect charging rates of 13 kW or slower, or 35-40 miles of range per hour of charging, until probably 24 hours after that first DC fast charge (best guess is a rolling time-out, but Toyota won't tell my local service departments any of these details). My family found this out the hard way.
I'm quite nervous to take my family any distance in this vehicle for that very reason. I presume in your situation, you likely ended up just getting a hotel [with a Level 2 charger] for the night(?) I wonder if Toyota's towing service would tow the car under warranty if one ended up stranded in such a situation; stuck at a DC charging station for what would be up to 4 hours, driving another ~120 miles, then stuck again for another 4 hours, etc.
On a 250 mile stretch, then, one would effectively be averaging roughly 20 miles per hour; therefore even factoring in the wait time for the tow truck, I imagine that being towed would still be the quicker option.
Our ICE car blew an oil hose on our way to family for Christmas, halfway through an 800+ mile road trip. A dear friend rescued the kids and me, taking us to their house in Maryland for Christmas, while my husband got a uhaul box truck and car hauler to get his car and our two dogs home. After Christmas, my husband got the dogs boarded and took our month old Bz4X from Maine to Maryland, so he could spend a couple days with our friends before we all headed home. In an ICE car, that's a 9-10 hour drive. The Bz4X is a slow charger, so we assumed 14-16, based on a better route planner and budgeting for slower speeds in cold. He started out relatively low because we hadn't gotten our home level 2 charger yet, and hit the limit halfway through the trip. We had no idea what was wrong, but it looked like the charging drop off we normally see at 80% when fast charging, only it hit when he had 46%, dropping to charging rates of 13kW or less. Thinking maybe it was the charger, he kept plowing through, but that trip took him 23 hours. Toyota warned everyone that this car charges slower in the cold, so we were prepared for that, but temps were in the 40-50s Fahrenheit, so that wasn't the issue. We have been able to reproduce it, and it does seem to be about the amount of power to charge from 0 to 80% twice, or 110-120 KWh, and it does seem to at least partially reset after 24 hours. That means if you start out at 100%, you may be OK for up to a 400 mile drive, but I would recommend doing the math for anything further, or risk finishing your tip at a rate of 35-40 miles of driving per hour of charging. Or get a hotel and try again in the morning.
And there is where the class action lawsuit might have some teeth.
I know after charging my car will say 252 miles but I actually only get around 180. That's a huge discrepancy.
Agreed. It's an absurd and unsafe feature. I know I won't be letting my wife take the vehicle alone on a trip of any distance with the car at this point, certainly not after reading Kat's experience. To think that one would have to stop for an hour at a DC charging station every 35 miles after being throttled—or stay at one for 4+ hours to fully charge—is very unsettling. Especially since it would slow down a trip so considerably (and require so many stops) that pulling into stations in unfamiliar places late at night—and for prolonged periods of time—would eventually become inevitable if one wanted simply to complete their journey.And there is where the class action lawsuit might have some teeth.
I cannot fathom how Toyota does not recognize that this feature is a greater liability that whatever liabilities may arise from hypothetical battery degradation.
In other words, the unscrupulous types who used to lurk at rest stops need now only change their stomping grounds to DC charging stations...and wait for a luckless BZ4X to roll in; as chances are decent that their mark may be throttled, and thus won't be going anywhere anytime soon, and may likewise be frazzled and in an unfamiliar location after dark.
And nor will they be apt to be getting very far after their charge, either.
It's really sad, because this car would be perfect for some people. If all I did was drive my usual work commute, shopping, etc, and I never wanted to drive long distances, this is a great car. It's comfortable, practical, and a super-easy transition for a first EV, especially for loyal Toyota customers. If they had publicized this limitation, explaining it as a feature to help with battery longevity, just as they warned that these cars DC fast charge slowly at sub-zero temperatures, it would have been fine. We probably wouldn't have gotten the car, but there probably are plenty of people who would be perfectly happy with it.Agreed. It's an absurd and unsafe feature. I know I won't be letting my wife take the vehicle alone on a trip of any distance with the car at this point, certainly not after reading Kat's experience. To think that one would have to stop for an hour at a DC charging station every 35 miles after being throttled—or stay at one for 4+ hours to fully charge—is very unsettling. Especially since it would slow down a trip so considerably (and require so many stops) that pulling into stations in unfamiliar places late at night—and for prolonged periods of time—would eventually become inevitable if one wanted simply to complete their journey.
I cannot fathom how Toyota does not recognize that this feature is a greater liability that whatever liabilities may arise from hypothetical battery degradation.
In other words, the unscrupulous types who used to lurk at rest stops need now only change their stomping grounds to DC charging stations...and wait for a luckless BZ4X to roll in; as chances are decent that their mark may be throttled, and thus won't be going anywhere anytime soon, and may likewise be frazzled and in an unfamiliar location after dark.
And nor will they be apt to be getting very far after their charge, either.
I have read from somewhere that toyota is indeed limiting the DC charged KWh per day. It is currently at 90kwh, with the coming update in May to 170kwh. The twice a day limit represent 2x of charging time SOC 10%-80%.I can verify that yes, if you DC fast charge too frequently, which seems to be more than the equivalent of 2 cycles from low battery to 80% within 24 hours, any further fast charging will be throttled. That translates to about 110-120 KWh on the US AWD battery. At EPA estimated highway efficiency, that's around 500 miles, if starting from 100% (less range if it's cold, of course). After that, expect charging rates of 13 kW or slower, or 35-40 miles of range per hour of charging, until probably 24 hours after that first DC fast charge (best guess is a rolling time-out, but Toyota won't tell my local service departments any of these details). My family found this out the hard way.
It doesn't give me a good feeling when the site for Lexus USA says things for the RZ like "Level 3 DC charging". No such thing. DC Fast Charger or DC Fast Charging, yes.
This is under the "Charge At Your Speed", which is definitely hyperbole or a rather poor attempt at projecting the decisions of corporate upon the owners or potential buyers.
Here's a quote about the RZ (Panasonic pack) charging:
No such notices were given for the bZ4X and Solterra by Toyota USA and Subaru USA.
This is under the "Charge At Your Speed", which is definitely hyperbole or a rather poor attempt at projecting the decisions of corporate upon the owners or potential buyers.
Here's a quote about the RZ (Panasonic pack) charging:
And this one about cold weather charging:HOW FREQUENTLY CAN I DC FAST CHARGE?
In order to ensure effective charging and preserve battery health over the life of the vehicle, please plan no more than three DC fast charging sessions within approximately 12 hours. After three 10-80% state of charge DC charging sessions, a threshold can be reached, which will result in DC charging speed being significantly reduced.
Over time, the battery will gradually recover, and high-speed DC-charging can be resumed after approximately 6 hours. During the recovery time, vehicle driving performance and Level 1 and Level 2 AC-charging capability remain unchanged.
The fine print in the online version of the print brochure (in what looks to be about three point type):HOW DOES THE WEATHER AFFECT DC FAST CHARGING?
As temperatures decrease below 50 degrees Fahrenheit, DC charging time will increase. As temperatures drop even further, DC Fast Charging time may be considerably longer. For example, at 15 degrees Fahrenheit, DC Fast Charging times can increase by approximately 3 times.
So, at least on the RZ, Lexus USA is making a feeble attempt to inform possible buyers.7. Charging time may be longer using standard dedicated GFCI 120V (NEMA 5-15) outlet. Always plug in/charge vehicle in accordance with Owner’s Manual.
8. Public charging experience will vary based on charger type (Level 2 or DC Fast Charger) and other factors, including vehicle and environmental conditions. See lexus.com/electrified for more information.
9. DC charging time will vary based on weather and other factors. DC charging times will increase as temperatures decrease below 50 degrees Fahrenheit, with significant increases possible at temperatures below freezing. DC charging more than three times within 12 hours also can significantly increase charging time and will require approximately six hours before high-speed DC charging can be resumed. Accessory use, battery level and condition, and charger specifications also can negatively affect charging times.
No such notices were given for the bZ4X and Solterra by Toyota USA and Subaru USA.
I found similar wording in a footnote on the online FAQ for the Bz4X. I don't think it was there last December, but I failed to screenshot what I thought it said, and the Internet Archive isn't able to confirm what I remember. I can't find anything like this in the manual, and that's what they keep telling me to go to. My husband and I were the first to tell our dealership, and the first to tell another dealership we worked with to check and confirm there isn't something wrong with the car.
The Lexus also apparently offers 30 days of a loaner car within the first 3 years, and expects that it will be a household's 2nd or 3rd car. I can't help but wonder who gets a Lexus as their 2nd or 3rd car?
The Lexus also apparently offers 30 days of a loaner car within the first 3 years, and expects that it will be a household's 2nd or 3rd car. I can't help but wonder who gets a Lexus as their 2nd or 3rd car?
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