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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
Gutsy move… I’d just advise that you’re 100% sure you’re going to purchase the vehicle, credit or no credit. That’s a fair amount of deposit to walk away from if you elect to walk.

Of course, if your dealer will refund the deposit regardless of your reason for declining the purchase (an under the table guarantee), then why not?
It’s 100% refundable. Just shows as a deposit on the paperwork.😳
 

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It’s 100% refundable. Just shows as a deposit on the paperwork.😳
If it’s a refundable deposit, does it qualify? The IRS guidance is that there can’t be a limit on damages if you cancel the contract. And then they further state that a non-refundable deposit or down payment of at least 5% does not constitute a limitation of damages, so it still is considered a binding contract.
 

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It is intriguing, in the end i wonder we'll end up.

I plugged my VIN into the RECALL page on the NHTSA site in it in fact comes up as a 2023 Toyota bZ4X

But when i plug it into that site you provided for decoding.... I too get the Subaru Solterra...

I have a "B" in the 7th position
Same here I have a B at 7 position so mine is JTMABA"B"A5Pxxxxx and the VPIC VIN decoder site I picked up is from form 8936 and its instruction. So looks like 2 different decoder output NHTSA....this is all getting Vodoo...will wait till end of Aug and might have to make a hard call. BTW, have requested TBE case manager to give me a call back....will keep you all updated if I get anything new.
 

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Discussion Starter · #86 ·
The Federal Tax Credit web-site didn't waste any time making updates...

View attachment 924

Federal Tax Credits for Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Cars


Sadly, Toyota still hasn't provided the necessary paperwork to the IRS for the bZ4X... So, now, what I'm afraid of, is that I'll provide my VIN number at tax time, and it will reject it! ugh. Next phone call to corporate I'll bring this up.
I’ve noticed that the banners have been taken down. Not sure if that means anything.

 

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For someone making a purchase decision, I can easily see how they might get confused and think many of these models shown in the chart qualify for the $7500 credit. There’s the “qualifier” at the top of the page, but I could see folks completely missing it (US production requirements in effect now).

Some folks are probably get a bad $7500 NO TAX CREDIT surprise at some point.
 

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For someone making a purchase decision, I can easily see how they might get confused and think many of these models shown in the chart qualify for the $7500 credit. There’s the “qualifier” at the top of the page, but I could see folks completely missing it (US production requirements in effect now).

Some folks are probably get a bad $7500 NO TAX CREDIT surprise at some point.
I was just going to say, it was because they updated the Qualifier and BIG Gian RED at the top... but yes, still people will scroll on by, Filter by Maker, and see that the Toyota now is available for a Full Tax credit, whenever they want, bwhahah!

Yup, lots of people will be sorry....

In fact, if Toyota won't hurry up on the Recall problem before 9/30, I'll be in the same boat! No tax credit. (as of right now, I have my binding deal, but according to this page and the IRS page, that still only goes by what happened before 8/16, which means we are back to square one, 9/30 is still the deadline!)

I think this DOE site, needs to put back that info they had on the Phase out! Or put up that it COMPLETLY phases out on 10/1. duh!
 

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Discussion Starter · #89 ·
I was just going to say, it was because they updated the Qualifier and BIG Gian RED at the top... but yes, still people will scroll on by, Filter by Maker, and see that the Toyota now is available for a Full Tax credit, whenever they want, bwhahah!

Yup, lots of people will be sorry....

In fact, if Toyota won't hurry up on the Recall problem before 9/30, I'll be in the same boat! No tax credit. (as of right now, I have my binding deal, but according to this page and the IRS page, that still only goes by what happened before 8/16, which means we are back to square one, 9/30 is still the deadline!)

I think this DOE site, needs to put back that info they had on the Phase out! Or put up that it COMPLETLY phases out on 10/1. duh!
you wouldn’t lose the entire credit after8/30/22, only half. Hell, I would settle for a guaranteed half right now…sigh.
 

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In fact, if Toyota won't hurry up on the Recall problem before 9/30, I'll be in the same boat! No tax credit. (as of right now, I have my binding deal, but according to this page and the IRS page, that still only goes by what happened before 8/16, which means we are back to square one, 9/30 is still the deadline!)
Without the IRA having been passed, your Credit would have gone from $7,500 down to $3,750 after 09/30/2022. However, I think you'll still get the full credit, rather than half! Unless the text was changed since we got the full text a while ago, the Transition Rule allows you to "treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of this Act" if you have the binding contract. That would mean you would have placed it in service on 08/15 and Toyotas still qualified for $7,500 at that time.

Of course, the IRS guidance uses the slightly different phrase "may claim the EV credit based on the rules that were in effect before August 16, 2022". Did they do that to just simplify their explanation? Did the text in the bill change? Did they IRS just decide to change how things work, and can they do that?

If the original text of the bill is correct, you may actually benefit from the passage of the IRA!! Or, I could be completely wrong!
 

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This email header that I received from Senator Manchin says it all.....

View attachment 936

You know... .this has been one of the biggest down falls of this country!! BIG OIL, etc.... running the government! If I recall, I had a friend years ago tell me that back in the 70's some private companies received government grants to figure out Fuel Economy in cars... they researched and developed something (I think had to do with, in combination with the catalytic converter), but the government, in the end squashed it like a bug...

I actually worked for a Research company about 10-15 years ago that had several projects with the DOE, ARMY, NASA, Air Force... several different types of Fuel Cell work being done. Tons of money coming from the government to work on those types of things... but after having worked there for nearly a decade, one thing i noticed, it felt like that money was thrown out there so people would see the research being done, but that's all... they really didn't push for commercialization or using any of that research money to go commercial with the product.

While i was there, Honda had found out about the work they were doing and finding success, so they purchased a Solid Oxide Fuel Cell stack from them (so they could use in their own research)....

Fast Forward to just a few years ago... and TOYOTA came out with the Mirai... ta-da! Hydrogen Fuel Cell car!... I stand with Toyota, and feel this is where our government should have put their money instead of "electrified charging"... they needed to build up the Hydrogen fuel stations infrastructure. Apparently Honda is still working on the Clarity Fuel Cell car, or maybe they have some out now, but I haven't heard of it...

Anyway, my point there was the fact that JAPAN ended up actually making the FUEL CELL car and making it work!!! What the CRAP USA?? ugh... Government!

Bottom line.... Manchin's edits will stifle the Electrified Car production for at least a few years!!
 

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You know... .this has been one of the biggest down falls of this country!! BIG OIL, etc.... running the government! If I recall, I had a friend years ago tell me that back in the 70's some private companies received government grants to figure out Fuel Economy in cars... they researched and developed something (I think had to do with, in combination with the catalytic converter), but the government, in the end squashed it like a bug...

I actually worked for a Research company about 10-15 years ago that had several projects with the DOE, ARMY, NASA, Air Force... several different types of Fuel Cell work being done. Tons of money coming from the government to work on those types of things... but after having worked there for nearly a decade, one thing i noticed, it felt like that money was thrown out there so people would see the research being done, but that's all... they really didn't push for commercialization or using any of that research money to go commercial with the product.

While i was there, Honda had found out about the work they were doing and finding success, so they purchased a Solid Oxide Fuel Cell stack from them (so they could use in their own research)....

Fast Forward to just a few years ago... and TOYOTA came out with the Mirai... ta-da! Hydrogen Fuel Cell car!... I stand with Toyota, and feel this is where our government should have put their money instead of "electrified charging"... they needed to build up the Hydrogen fuel stations infrastructure. Apparently Honda is still working on the Clarity Fuel Cell car, or maybe they have some out now, but I haven't heard of it...

Anyway, my point there was the fact that JAPAN ended up actually making the FUEL CELL car and making it work!!! What the CRAP USA?? ugh... Government!

Bottom line.... Manchin's edits will stifle the Electrified Car production for at least a few years!!
History keeps repeating itself.....we in USA pioneered LiOn battery cell (UT Austin) no takers....Duracell was fully invested elsewhere.....Sony picks it up for coin cell and walkman happens.....and then EV happens and then we scramble again.....same thing with Semiconductor (my wheel house) worked with Largest Computer Chip guys..mid 90s Japan was ahead and then my company invested the heck out and became the #1 in technology and product and in fact bailed out Samsung and TSMC because we wanted second source for RAM memory... then BoD incentivizes the CEO to go to low cost geography and set up shops China.....mid 2000s.....now we are hurting.......and building back....one can present a business case on why we as country had to do these things but I really cannot comprehend this calculus
 

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Discussion Starter · #98 ·
As expected, Manchin responded with a standard form letter talking about all of the great things that the new law does and how there was all of this bi-partisan ship (even though not a single GOP member voted for it). Nothing of substance to address the immediate stripping of the tax credit for so many people and nothing stating that he would go to bat to try to work with Congress or the IRS to get a phase in / out period.

What a tool!
 

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As expected, Manchin responded with a standard form letter talking about all of the great things that the new law does and how there was all of this bi-partisan ship (even though not a single GOP member voted for it). Nothing of substance to address the immediate stripping of the tax credit for so many people and nothing stating that he would go to bat to try to work with Congress or the IRS to get a phase in / out period.

What a tool!
Last weekend we were in Crater Lake, Oregon...2 chargers(Tesla) at this national park was OOO.....this is not a party issue....I think these senators are probably limo'ed in and out and have no clue what is clean/green etc...... my feeling is it is going to be a very long while before EV will become ubiquitous.......
Tree Sky Motor vehicle Wood Landscape
 

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Discussion Starter · #100 ·
Hyundai chairman goes to DC to lobby for a waiver. Other tidbits. I’m thinking they won’t be the only one.

“For Hyundai, it’s a call to action: if you want to qualify for government subsidy, then bring forward your capacity in the US and do it now,” said Tim Bush, an analyst at UBS in Seoul.
He added that Hyundai was probably looking for a “waiver” of the rules as they stand. “As long as they’re making the investment [in the US] and there’s visibility that their manufacturing will scale, it’s fairly likely that an accommodation will be made.”
Many other automakers are in same position. Waivers anyone?
 
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